Saturday, December 29, 2012

Keen Readers swan song


Close to two years ago, we launched www.keenreaders.org with great fanfare, lofty ambitions and a flurry of fine contributions from dedicated volunteers.
Today, we announce with regret that this will be our final posting. And yet, any sadness we feel is powerfully overridden by pride in all we’ve accomplished. This website’s hundreds of features on young-adult authors and literacy efforts, book reviews, youth-writing contest winners and links remain here for anyone to access and read. And the hundreds of books we’ve donated to schools and libraries around North America will, we’re certain, continue to be appreciated by young readers for many years to come.
It has been an exhilarating ride, a passion we’ve both enjoyed pursuing. And judging from feedback we’ve had, the material has been appreciated by many parents, teachers, librarians and mentors out there.
We’re sorry to disappoint, but between health issues and other work commitments, it is time for us to step back and focus on other projects, other aspects of our lives, and to allow this site to serve as an archive of helpful hints for those dedicated to helping reluctant readers discover the lifetime joy of reading.
There are many other websites that continue to do what we’ve been doing, including many we’ve featured – as links (http://www.keenreaders.org/parents/links)
So, while we’ve headlined this our “swan song,” in reality it’s merely a “freeze frame,” a library shelf still very much open to the public.
We wish to thank our talented team for their hard work and commitment to youth literacy, and we look forward to seeing them continue to excel in their careers. Finally, we wish our viewers and fans, our Facebook “likes” and Twitter followers, a warm and happy reading life.
Pam Withers and Tony Dirksen
co-founders, www.keenreaders.org

P.S. In July 2013, Pam has a new book out: Jump Starting Boys: Help Your Reluctant Learner Find Success in School and Life ($16.95, ISBN 978-1-936740-39-0). Co-authored with her sister Cynthia Gill (a licensed marriage and family therapist who taught high school for 30 years), it’s aimed at parents and mentors, and is available now for pre-ordering. Hope you enjoy it!

Below are links to publisher Viva Editions’ catalog…

… and to Amazon.com’s page:

Sunday, December 16, 2012

A basket of books

Keen Readers just donated a basketful of books to Chaffey-Burke Elementary School in Burnaby, British Columbia, Canada, and here's the nice letter we just received back:
"Thank you very much for giving me so many books to take to my class. The students were thrilled and eager to look through the collection. What a hit! Thanks for thinking of us, and for your generosity. The books are much appreciated and will be well read. :)
-- Lori Barer., teacher, Div. 8 (Grades 4/5)


Thursday, November 8, 2012

Marine life update for our intrepid book reviewer Stacey

Two blogs ago -- the one with the blue dolphin leaping above it -- I mentioned that one of our book reviewers, Stacey Matson, works with marine wildlife when she isn't writing book reviews for Keen Readers or working on her own novel. Well, strike that dolphin, because she just sent me an update: She is, in fact, working at an aquarium in Vancouver, BC, Canada as an interpreter, delivering public programs and family programs about marine life. There's a lot to learn, but she has definitely become a penguin, sea lion and otter expert in the last few months, and she tells me that she looks pretty good dressed up as a rapping penguin too! She's also volunteering with an organization dedicated to kids' literacy. The Writers' Exchange is helping to get inner-city kids excited about literacy through mentoring programs and creative writing projects. (You can check out their website here: http://www.vancouverwe.com/)

Thursday, November 1, 2012

Another KR book giveaway!

My favorite part of running Keen Readers is giving away boxes of books to needy school libraries every few months. This month, we sent a big box (I know because I personally carried it to the post office) to Welland, Ontario, Canada. And here's the nice letter we got back today:
 
 Hi Pam:

I just wanted to say thanks so much for the box of books that arrived at our school yesterday!  The students here at Fitch Street are always popping in to the library wondering if any new books have been added to our collection.  I have already catalogued the books and put them on display!  We are very grateful for the donation which will be enjoyed by the many avid readers here at Fitch Street.  Thanks again!

Sincerely,
Lisa Teal 
Teacher-Librarian
Fitch Street Public School
DISTRICT SCHOOL BOARD OF NIAGARA
Welland, ON L3C 4V5

Wednesday, October 31, 2012

Our team: from Newbery Medal committee member to gourmet cook to swimming with dolphins


As our November 1 features are being readied to appear tomorrow, I want to do a "shout out" about the team members who make keen readers happen.
Nothing makes me prouder than the hard work they all go to to bring you new material each month.
There's Cameron, reading and judging all the youth contest entries between his work as a science center presenter and substitute teacher. (Having recently finished his teachers' training, he hopefully will land on his feet in a lucky school soon.)
And Darian, who burns the midnight oil posting new features and keeping our website up and running in addition to coping with a staggering college workload (and on top of that, being a gourmet cook for friends and lucky keen-readers staff like myself).
I don't know what we'd do without Teresa Bateman, whose prodigious book reviewing output happens in her "spare time" between serving as a school librarian and writing books herself. (She has promised to give us a head's up when the next one is out.)
Then there's Stacey Matson, whose passion besides children's literature (and working on a novel of her own) is working with marine life. (I'd love to post a photo of her swimming with dolphins one of these days...)
Tony keeps tabs on the operation between voluminous travel trips (he's just off a cruise ship in Spain right now, the bum). 
And why have I saved our longest-serving book reviewer Rob Bittner till last? Because we're particularly proud of him this month. He has just learned that he will be a member of the 2014 Newbery Medal committee through the American Library Association. You rock, Rob! Plus, at about the same time, he learned that an article written with Dr. Eric Meyers will be included in the essay collection, Children’s Play Worlds: Culture, Learning and Growth in Virtual Spaces. Hard to top that!
Finally, thank you, readers, for making our work worthwhile.

Monday, October 15, 2012

Love letter & surprise phone call



Love letter
I was touched by a recent blog from a librarian who used to snub “reluctant reader” books, but now realizes the value of short, high-action, low-vocabulary books aimed at hooking middle grade and high school kids into reading. Her new insight inspired her to write a "love letter" to Orca Books, a publisher of reluctant-reader books, on her blog:
“You know that not every 15-year-old can read above a third grade level, and even a lot of those who can, think reading an actual book is equal to pulling out all of your teeth.”
Three of my own novels are aimed at “reluctant readers” – Camp Wild, Breathless and Daredevil Club – all published with Orca Books, whose Orca Currents and Orca Soundings series(among others) specialize in such material (http://www.orcabook.com/).
Here’s the rest of that blog entry I’d like to share:
 
Surprise phone call
Just a quick note regarding my most recent young-adult novel First Descent (Tundra Books), even though it’s not a reluctant reader book: I got the phone call a few weeks ago, only to be told I had to keep it hush-hush until today! Well, I’m honored to announce that as of this morning, the Ontario Library Association has officially released a list of books nominated for its “Forest of Reading” awards, and First Descent is up for the Red Maple Award. Thank you, Ontario Library Association! Here’s more information about them:

That means I’ll be in Toronto May 15-16, 2013. Coincidentally, just two weeks later I’m due to sign advance reading copies of my sister’s and my forthcoming book for parents, about getting reluctant-reader boys to read (more about that in a future blog) at the Book Expo America conference in New York City (May 30 and June 1, 2013). So in between, I’ll be doing presentations in Ontario, in Washington D.C. and in parts between. (Here’s where I insert a little plug; hope no one minds): Anyone interested in booking a presentation, feel free to contact my speaking-tours agent Chris Patrick, 1-866-413-9216, jcpem (at) shaw.ca. More information on my presentations is below.
presentations for schools:
presentations to adults:

Tuesday, July 3, 2012

Saturday, May 26, 2012

Another book giveaway!

     Mary Ann Cummings of Vancouver, Canada is the type of person I admire. She had an idea for a nonprofit enterprise -- collecting "gently used" children's books from parents who have plenty, and putting them into the hands of less fortunate children. She spent months starting up her outfit with full fervor. Her passion soon drew a cadre of enthusiastic volunteers who now spend hours per week promoting, collecting, sorting, re-boxing and putting books into the hands of appreciative youngsters. The local school board helps direct her to the schools with children most in need.
     Thanks to Mary Ann and her team, "Books for Me" (http://booksformevancouver.org/) has become a busy, busy outfit, and thanks to them, many a child who isn't used to the privilege of owning a book have received some of their very own.
     Keen Readers was honored to contribute roughly 100 to Books for Me last month (many of them donated to us by the generous children's authors at www.cwill.bc.ca) , and here's a photo of Mary Ann opening our box.
     As our regular readers know, we do this several times a year. By going through Books for Me on this round, we got to know Mary Ann and her crew, who reignited our own passion for promoting youth literacy.
    Thanks, Mary Ann and team, for all you do!
-- Pam Withers, Keen Readers co-founder


Wednesday, March 7, 2012

A small-world story


by Pam Withers

            My favorite part of running the keenreaders website is choosing someone to interview each month for our Interview feature. Basically, if they have anything to do with youth literacy, they intrigue me and become a potential candidate.
            So when I stumbled across something called www.MenTeach.org, which promotes getting more male teachers into schools (thereby hopefully influencing reluctant readers that reading is not entirely a female thing), I decided that at some point I’d pursue an interview with whoever founded it. Not just because the majority of reluctant readers are boys, but because I think (and many mothers and female teachers agree) that girls could benefit from more positive male role models in the school system too.
            This past month, I got around to checking out their website, and who do you think popped up on my screen? The name and photo of Bryan G. Nelson, founder.
            “So that’s where you’ve gotten to, Bryan!” I exclaimed. Because not only did Bryan and I attend Beloit College in Wisconsin together thirty-some years ago, but we co-edited the college newspaper, The Round Table. I recall a free-spirited, dedicated colleague with whom I shared many laughs as well as late-night deadline panics in the cramped little attic college-newspaper room.
            It was fun to request a Keen Readers interview with Bryan, then add a “by the way…” He too was surprised and delighted at reconnecting in this way.
            So, here’s to a small world, and to folks who endeavor to make a difference. Keep up your good work, Bryan!

Keen Readers donates another 100 books

Keen Readers just donated 100 books to Kate Pike, manager of the Jefferson Teen Center in Chimacum, Washington. She accepted them from Tony Dirksen, co-founder of Keenreaders.org.



The Teen Center, located on the Chimacum High School campus, is a place for kids to hang out, play music, play foosball, watch movies and yes, discover books and find a quiet corner to read.  Plus, the Center gives young people a place where they can come together to talk about issues of importance to them and to their safety, and it provides referrals to health care, employment and drug and alcohol prevention programs.

Keen Readers donates young-adult books to needy schools across North America, several times per year.

Monday, January 9, 2012

First fan letter of 2012

When you start a website and blog, you don't always know who is out there reading it.  Isn't it nice when somebody lets you know they have discovered your little piece of web real estate, and actually take the time to tell you it's useful and they like it! :)
Here's our first fan letter for 2012. Thanks so much Alicia.  Happy New Year everyone, and we hope you received lots of books over the holidays.  Pam Withers, co-founder
Hi,
My name is Alicia and I am a middle school English teacher. I am currently working on my students' next reading project. Usually the projects are based off a book we read as a class but this time I am letting the students have a free choice. I am helping them out by creating a list of sites they can turn to get ideas of what book to choose. I just happened to come across your page http://www.keenreaders.org/parents/links while I was looking for some book lists and other reading related resources to add to the guide.

I just wanted to take a second and write you a quick email to show my gratitude for the help you have given me with my project guide and lesson plans. The resources and information you took the time to post were very helpful. 

I thought I could share another great literature resource page I found while searching. This page http://www.curiocabinetspot.com/literary-awards has some good information and resources on the different literary awards and I thought you might want to add it as another resource. 

Thanks again for your help, I really appreciate it.

Best Wishes in 2012,
Alicia 

Tuesday, November 29, 2011

Keen kids write authors

What better way to connect kids with reading and writing than dare them to write their favorite author? I salute teachers who assign kids to do so, and even moreso parents who help their children do so.  (If your child's favorite author doesn't have a website, the web or your local library can help you find the publisher's address.) Besides reinforcing their reading, it gives them a writing exercise they won't see as work.
I wonder how many authors write back. I always do, sometimes sending an autographed bookmark while I'm at it. My only curiosity is why so many adults have kids send snail-mail letters c/o the publisher, when it's so easy to email them via their websites.  (Especially since publishers can lose those letters, or take months to get them to authors.)
Anyway, here's a letter I received today, just to inspire parents to think about having their child write an author. I've replied already, of course! Thanks for writing me, Ryan T.
Pam Withers, co-founder, www.keenreaders.org (and young adult author, www.pamwithers.com)

Dear Mrs. Withers:
My name is Ryan T. I am a sixth grader at XXX Middle School. I am with a group of gifted and talented kids doing a report on an author.
When I heard we were going to do this project I got kind of excited. I discovered your books by a website that lets you look at books and authors. Once I found your books I immediately wanted to study you and know more about your books. I've almost finished your book Raging River. I think it's amazing! I love how you portray your character as an employee trying to get a promotion. I coudn't stop reading! I also just wanted to ask how did you come up with this amazing piece of literature? Did it just pop into your head one day while sitting at home? Did it take you a long time to try to figure out what happens to Peter and Jake? And if so how long did it take? Well enough questions. The most amazing thing I find in your books is that I find it very hard to put down! I could read it over and over again before I get even the slightest bit bored by it.
We are collecting autographed pictures of the authors and I was wondering if you could send one back it would mean a lot to me! Could you please write back? My teacher told me that sometimes the authors write back and I thought it would be really cool to get something back from you. If you do send me something I'll be sure to send you a picture of my completed project. I'm sure that by picking you I'll get an "A" for sure!
I wish you continued success in your career.
Your biggest and best fan,
Ryan T

Friday, October 14, 2011

A trip to Portland, Oregon

Yesterday I had the privilege of visiting Portland, Oregon to present my new young adult novel, First Descent, to 200 booksellers, librarians, publishers and other book lovers. I was attending the Pacific Northwest Booksellers Association’s Fall Tradeshow 2011, and I was so impressed by the attendees, I wrote a guest blog for Tundra Books' site, right here:
 http://tundrabooks.wordpress.com/2011/10/14/guest-post-pam-withers-2/ 
But more importantly, I scattered some brochures promoting Keen Readers around, thinking that if no one picked them up, I'd stuff them back into my briefcase before I left. Whoa! Every single one got scooped up, and I had people asking me for more! Here was a crowd highly receptive to a youth literacy website (and hopefully they'll get kids they know to enter our youth writing contest, since we could definitely use more entries there). Anyway, I'll take more next time, I promise.

Monday, October 3, 2011

The power of one (plus one plus one...)


by Pam Withers

It all started with one letter from a teacher of grades two and three, who felt overwhelmed by the needs of her inner-city elementary students. She and her school struggle to meet their kids’ academic needs, but after school cutbacks, she could no longer turn a blind eye to unmet physical and psychological needs affecting their schoolwork, from warm socks and snacks (for those who didn’t eat breakfast) to counseling.
          She (Carrie Gelson, far left above) wrote a letter to the local newspaper, and the message went viral. She began receiving everything from monetary to food donations. A longtime children’s author who read Gelson's letter, Irene Watts (http://irenenwatts.com/), urged local children’s authors to donate books. When I received that suggestion, I (far right above) immediately dispatched a box of books to Gelson and her colleague Andrea Wilks (middle of photo) at Admiral Seymour Elementary in Vancouver, Canada.
          This is part of what Keen Readers is about, donating books to needy schools across North America. Through internet research, we target schools in needy communities, and then not only deliver a box of books, but deliver an additional handful of books autographed by authors to go to each of the students in that school who have a Big Brother or Big Sister. We hope they’ll read the books together, and we hope it’ll inspire more volunteers to step forward to serve as reading buddies.
          The gift bag in the picture holds five books for the Little Brothers and Sisters at Admiral Seymour. These are books personally donated by children’s authors (see our Author Heroes page: http://www.keenreaders.org/about/author-heroes).
          The big box of books Keen Readers handed over came originally from a special collection of books by children’s authors of British Columbia, Canada that sat at the University of British Columbia. When UBC disbanded the collection and tried to turn it over to the Children’s Writers and Illustrators of BC (www.cwill.bc.ca), CWILL BC voted to turn it over to Keen Readers instead, knowing we’d find a needy school for them.
          Well, we’ve found that school, thanks to one person (Gelson) who took the time to write a letter, one person (Watts) who made the suggestion, the members of CWILL BC who handed them over, and all those who support Keen Readers. That’s the power of one (plus one plus one plus one…)
         
Gelson’s original letter:
Article on response to Gelson’s letter

Thursday, June 9, 2011

Keen Readers donates 101 books

Above: School-mentor Bill and reading-buddy Timothy enjoy a KR-donated book in South Dakota

by Pam Withers

When Tony and I co-founded Keen Readers, we wanted to be more than an information hub for parents and mentors of reluctant readers. We wanted to get books into the hands of youths who don't have as ready access to them as others.
So, thanks to our Publisher and Author Heroes* (more of whom are signing up every day), we have been boxing up donated new kids' books and we are just starting to send them out. Our first box went to Big Brothers Big Sisters of the Black Hills in South Dakota, a region that dominates the list of top-ten poorest counties in the United States. We're donating to needy schools that have Big Brother/Big Sister pairs, and the pair gets an author-autographed book to keep and read together, while their school library gets a box of much-needed books. We hope to repeat this across North America in coming months. This coming fall, when schools start up again, we hope to feature some photos and thank you letters from the schools and kids receiving these books.
Meanwhile, here's an email that arrived yesterday, warming our hearts.
      "Your 101 books have been received. We have been sorting them and will  distribute to several of the libraries in our low income area of town and also on the Pine Ridge Reservation. THANK YOU so much for allowing us to be a part of this project. The libraries are THRILLED and so are we!
Mary B. Victor, Executive Director, Big Brothers Big Sisters of the Black Hills, Rapid City, S.D."

Publisher Heroes
Author Heroes

P.S. Did you read our feature last month on Big Brothers Big Sisters of America?

Saturday, April 9, 2011

216 books!

by Pam Withers

News flash! The Children's Writers and Illustrators of British Columbia (www.cwill.bc.ca) just donated 216 children's books to Keen Readers. They were part of a special collection at the University of British Colombia that was being disbanded, and the board members of CWILL BC voted to hand the entire collection over to Keen Readers so that we can donate them to needy children's reading programs across North America. Tony and I are deeply grateful. The children who receive them thank you. A special thanks to all the authors and illustrators at CWILL BC.

Being a struggling reader all over again

by Pam Withers

          If I’ve always been a keen reader, that means I can never truly understand someone who is a struggling reader, right?
          Wrong.  I just spent the past two months struggling mightily with reading a young adult novel, never mind that its vocabulary was supposed to be at a fourth grade reading level. I had to use a dictionary to look up words I didn’t know several times per sentence. It took up to an hour to get through each of its very short chapters. Numerous times, I nearly gave up. Never mind that it was a novel written specifically for reluctant readers. And never mind that I wrote the novel myself.
          When Orca Soundings had my novel Breathless translated into Spanish – Respira*, I was delighted. I decided to take on the challenge of reading it in Spanish. With two years of Spanish classes under my belt, I thought I was up for the task.
          Here’s what I have to report: The novel took me two weeks to write back in 2005, but two months to read in Spanish just now. I jotted down each Spanish word I didn’t know as I went along, and they added up to more than 200! Still, I finished it, and the victory was sweet. Now I just have to read it another half dozen times until it starts to come smoothly, right? Exactly as struggling readers have to do. (It helps to have short sentences, short chapters and a plot that moves. I guess that’s why they’re called reluctant reader books.)
          I can now recommend that anyone who finds their patience dwindling while working with a struggling reader, try what I just did to get it all into proper perspective.
          And no, I’m not going to tackle Breathless in Serbian, nor my Orca Currents novel The Daredevil Club (Les Casse-Cous) in French, though I’m pleased they’re out there.

*http://www.orcabook.com/searchproducts.cfm

Friday, March 11, 2011

It's raining books!

by Pam Withers

I have two baskets in my home office. One is filled with books for our book reviewers to review, and they stop by periodically to sort through and choose which they’ll write about. (I never offer my opinion, because as a young adult author, I consider that a conflict of interest; I know so many of the authors!)
      My other basket is filled with books destined for reading programs around North America – donations from authors and publishers. Those from authors are even autographed, a lovely surprise for the youths who receive them. This is part of what Keenreaders is all about: not just providing information and features on our website, but also donating books to needy reading programs around North America.
      What I never anticipated is that this particular basket would overflow to the point I’m thinking I need a locker, or maybe I even need to back my car out of the garage and let the donation books take over there! I simply can’t ship them out as fast as they’re arriving. Reading-buddy programs aren’t discovering us as fast as generous authors and publishers are.
      Tony, my co-founder, has the same two baskets in his home in Seattle. (I hope his new wife doesn’t mind!). They’re slightly less full, because American authors and publishers have been slower to discover us than Canadians. (Hmm, is that because Tony was on his honeymoon while I was notifying Canadian authors and publishers, and he’s just catching up with his American notifications now?!)
      In any case, I’m now proactively contacting reading programs around the continent telling them we have books if they need them. If you know of any, by all means tell them about our program. No strings attached. We donate books (from picture books to young adult books) to reading-buddy programs in schools, community centers, religious institutions and other places that need them. They just have to ask.
      We’ll give until we run out. But that won’t be anytime soon, especially since Orca Books (http://www.orcabook.com/) alone has just donated 100 books. I repeat, 100 books!
      Did I mention that it’s raining books and soon I won’t be able to move around in my home office? Thank you, Author and Publisher Heroes, all of them listed on our website: http://www.keenreaders.org/about/author-heroes and http://www.keenreaders.org/about/publisher-heroes.

Monday, February 21, 2011

The Joy of Open Libraries

By Tony Dirksen

I've never understood why libraries close on the holidays.

Mind you, I know that librarians, like the rest of us, need their days of rest. Especially librarians, who nowadays have to serve as combination information sources, computer experts, study hall monitors, and babysitters.

And I'm sadly aware of how budget squeezes have made a lot of librarians feel like they're in a thankless, unappreciated job. People like those of us at Keen Readers are keenly appreciative of the work they do. Still, most of us aren't nearly vocal enough in expressing our appreciation.

It's BECAUSE of that appreciation I think libraries should stay open on holidays.

Let me take a moment and tell you about my own growing-up reading experiences.

From a very early age, I've had a profound love of reading. In fact, I was able to read books of a somewhat advanced nature even when I was three and four years old, and that strictly by self training. I never told anybody, fearful that if I revealed my ability, something would go horribly wrong. Like the kid afraid of not getting any Christmas presents if he says Santa doesn't exist.

Growing up, books were my companions and my tutors. My loves of baseball and music and film were all taught to me in the stacks of my local library, located just around the block from my parents' home.

While here at Keen Readers we will be addressing many different opportunities and challenges for encouraging reluctant readers, I think there's nothing better for an emerging reader than having a library a short bike ride away around the block. A place where kids can be on their own without parents hovering overhead, where kids can be safe, and where they can find countless ways to explore the world.

I had the good fortune to grow up in such a place.

Most kids, of course, do not have my good fortune. They go to school in the morning, they go to soccer or basketball or little league in the afternoon, some of them may go to music lessons or tai kwan do or dance. And yes, they play video games and watch TV (probably stupid TV) and listen to their iPods way too loud.

Frankly, I might have done the same.

But if a kid is home on a holiday or a Sunday, and is bored with killing off the Covenant in Halo, and has nothing to do, and wants to get away from the house, he or she might, might, go to the public library. And they might discover that there are new worlds and new possibilities beyond anything they've experienced so far.

That's what books can do. Kids just need the time, and the place, where they can do it.

Thursday, February 17, 2011

Keen Readers' cover boys


      I looked through hundreds of stock photos before I chose the one that now graces the home page of Keen Readers. It was the effervescent grins that drew me to the two boys reading in a grassy, sunlit park. Weeks after our talented website designers Serenity Partners of Washington, D.C. completed the project and we went live, I found myself curious. Are the boys brothers? What were they reading? Are they always so happy? How old are they and where do they live?
      Ignoring the fact that it was a stock photo and I wasn’t supposed to be looking for a story behind it, I wrote the photographer, Andrey Shadrin.
      Imagine my delight when he replied. It turns out that Keen Readers’ cover boys are Alex, age 17, and Oleg, age six. They’re brothers, and Alex was always toting a book around that August while studying for exams. As they strolled through a park, Oleg was bored – he wanted to play. Alex flopped down on the grass, opened his schoolbook and pretended to read it while actually telling his little brother funny stories. Uncle Andrey snapped the photo and the rest is history.
      Except here’s a lovely surprise: The park is in Novosibirsk, Siberia. And yes, the brothers have now checked out the Keen Readers website and seen themselves hoisted to fame (well, just a little bit of fame). They and their mother are pleased, Andrey assures me. So, keep on reading and enjoying life, Alex and Oleg! And thanks for inspiring others to do the same.